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Radiator Questions, Aluminum Fins Compared To Copper Fins & Number of lang pumps

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Larry L

Junior Member

Radiator Questions, Aluminum Fins Compared To Copper Fins & Number of lang pumps

samedi 3 mai 2014, 09:04

Trying to figure out which radiators to purchase?
Basicaly running a single loop with 2 D-5 lang Pumps in series cooling CPU, N&S/Bridge, Moffset, 2 x GPUs = total 5 water blocks rule of thumb 1 x 120 radiator for each block. Number of radiator required = 2 x 360s.
Installing 3 x 120.3 (360s) radiators possibly 4 times have enough room in the case for 4 x 360s radiators. Over kill on cooling capacity.
Installing three 360s how much will the cooling improve using the copper fins verses the aluminum fins?
will there be much improvement aluminum fins compared to copper fins since the number of 360 radiators is over kill?
What is some of the other advantages copper fins compared to aluminum fins other than heat dissipation?
airplex modularity system 360 mm, copper fins, one circuit, stainless steel side panels

compared to

airplex modularity system 360 mm, aluminum fins, one circuit, stainless steel side panels

Cannot seem to make up my mind if 2 x D-5 Lang Pumps are required or run one D-5 Lang Pump? Advantage of 2 x D-5s higher flow rates, Pump Failure back up, Disadvantage more heat. Tubing diameter 1/2 in I.D x 3/4 in O.D. approximate tubuing length under 3 ft.

Any other pump recommendation appreciated.

Pilo

Senior Member

samedi 3 mai 2014, 11:35

There are some differences between a radiator with copper (Cu) fins compared to a rad with aluminium (Al) fins.
1. The price: copper is much more expensive.
2. The weight/density: Cu = 8,92 g/cm3; Al = 2,7 g/cm3 ; Copper is more than three times heavier than Aluminium.
3. The optics: copper red against a silverish look; also copper tends to tarnish over time, AL has a natural oxide coating of aluminium oxide [Al2O3] which is pretty much inert.
4. Thermal conductivity: Cu = 400 W/(m · K); Al = 235 W/(m · K); Copper has the ability to almost conduct twice as much heat over time than Aluminium.

vs.

Conclusion:
If you are rich, like the copper looks to death, are a strength athlete or own a crane to move your rig (with mutiple Cu fin rads installed) and/or need as much thermal conductivity as possible - for instance you don't have much space in your rig and can only install one radiator - than a copper fin radiator is your thing.
On the other hand: Al rads are favorable in price (~50€ cheaper per rad) the lesser weight is also a in favour for Aluminium in relation to Copper if you have multiple big rads installed. The thermal conductivity is neglectable in my opinion if you use multiple big radiators like you intend to do, because if you have fans installed and they run at low speed, the cooling capability is already overkill with those aluminium fin radiators. Nothing in a rig produces so much heat that it needs such intense cooling. You see, even pure air cooling is already enough to keep the CPU and GPU(s) in stable conditions.

I hope my post helps you to make a profound decision.
->Darin Epsilon - PERSPECTIVES<-
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Professor Kliq @ soundcloud.com

madcratebuilder

Junior Member

samedi 3 mai 2014, 12:29

Some manufacturers use aluminum fins the keep cost and weight down. With a bare metal surface cooper is the better conductor but when pinted I think they are fairly close.. I run dual d5's for flow and redundancy. I recently changed pump mounted res and found the new pump top had significantly less heat transfer to the loop. Old tops would put about 4C in the coolant during a overnight leak test, new tops are 2C. Dramatic reduction in noise also.

3 360's is certainly overkill but nothing wrong with that if you have the room for them. I cool cpu-mosfet-gpu-gpu with a 360 and 240 and have great temps. My 9590 hasn't past 48C in 1+ hour P95 testing, gpu's run at 46+/-. Ambient temp have the biggest effect on my cooling.

Larry L

Junior Member

samedi 3 mai 2014, 13:01

4. Thermal conductivity: Cu = 400 W/(m · K); Al = 235 W/(m · K); Copper has the ability to almost conduct twice as much heat over time than Aluminium. :thumbsup:
In order to make the loop simpler be better off with three x airplex modularity system 360 mm, copper fins.
Nothing in a rig produces so much heat that it needs such intense cooling, The goal is a 4.8 GHz over clock 24/7. My concern is average ambient temperatures 94F. The old system I7 990x with a 4.5GHz with one SR-1 360 running Prime after one hour on a dual loop 79c needed a second 360 for a 4.8GHz O.C... Limited to 2 x 580 Hydros on a 360 SR-1 Rad.
New system running a single loop full water blocks water blocks on the Mother Board. The new system Asus Rampage lV B. E. with CPU i7 4930k with the luck of the lottery on the cpu hopefully 4.8 GHz Plus. Start with 2 x 780s = 5 water blocks. In4 months will install a third GPU. Never say never LOL. This is the first single loop build so my concern is heat never run the cpus over 80c on the hottest core.
Start with three 360s.

madcratebuilder

Junior Member

mardi 6 mai 2014, 15:08

"average ambient temperatures 94F"

That's a hot room. My ambient can reach 86F on occasions and I see a reduction in cooling. I've been looking at chillers, I have a old aquarium chiller I do not use any more. I may see about modding it to cool loop temps. Your loop temp is 34C at that ambient, any idea what the DT is going to be?

"4. Thermal conductivity: Cu = 400 W/(m · K); Al = 235 W/(m · K); Copper
has the ability to almost conduct twice as much heat over time than
Aluminium."

Are the fins painted or unpainted? If painted it makes a significant difference.

lee-turbo

Junior Member

samedi 10 mai 2014, 05:29

Citation de "madcratebuilder"

"average ambient temperatures 94F"

That's a hot room. My ambient can reach 86F on occasions and I see a reduction in cooling. I've been looking at chillers, I have a old aquarium chiller I do not use any more. I may see about modding it to cool loop temps. Your loop temp is 34C at that ambient, any idea what the DT is going to be?

"4. Thermal conductivity: Cu = 400 W/(m · K); Al = 235 W/(m · K); Copper
has the ability to almost conduct twice as much heat over time than
Aluminium."

Are the fins painted or unpainted? If painted it makes a significant difference.
unpainted, raw

Larry L

Junior Member

mardi 13 mai 2014, 07:16

Been very busy since did this post and apologize for not getting back sooner and my answer is not real techy based on experience only.
any idea what the DT is going to be?
Hum pardone my lack of knowledge may I ask what DT is? I think you are asking me the Delta Temperature will be? Not sure.

maybe this will help?
Using a Black Ice SR-1 120.3 Radiator, solid brass case with copper tubing and fins. The fins are painted ouch OK radiator for the dollar spent. 9 Fins per inch spacing. Low rpm 600 RPM to 1200 RPM. Personaly never noticed any cooling benefit over 1100 RPM using Yate Looms or Scythe Gentle Typhoons on the SR-1. Notice a few degree lower temps running the Yate Looms compared to the Gentyle Typhoons. Yate Looms produce a higher static pressure and CFPM compared to the G.T..
Set Up:
Asus Rampage lll Black Edition
CPU I7 990x Golden Chip clocked at 4.5 GHz and 4.6GHz
Note the CPU block solid copper hand lapped including the CPU blocks did not notice any differences in temps or performance***** Changed the plates in the Swiftech and did not notice any differences on the cpu TEMPS. 120 mm x 25 mm shroud with and with out shrouds. Did notice CPU temps drop about 4 degrees C with the shrouds installed. a 32 mm shroud would be some improvement can always make them.
Pump is a D-5 Not PWM Maximum discharge 1/2 in ID fittings = 317 GPH or 1200 LPH
Tubing Tygon 1/2 in I.D. x 3/4 in O.D..
Shrouds 120 mm x 25 mm with and with out shrouds. 25 mm shroud is not enough in my opinion 32 or 35 mm. Better yet push pull configuration.
cpu at 4.5 Ghz using Prime for 5 straight hours is a good solid test to test the temps.
Ambient Temperature at air intake on the case 34c
No air filters or thumb guards used in the case. Coolant 100 percent Distilled water.
Average temperature running Prime for 5 hours @ 1200 RPM
With out shrouds
Temperature monitor used Real Temp and HW Monitor.
Hottest core after five hours reached 74c.
with shrouds 72c
CPU @ 4.6 GHz
ambient @ air intake 34c
With out shrouds 78c
With Shrouds 76c

How do you figure Delta Temps from the above information?
Chiller so you at some point with your aquarium was on the dark side (Salty). Considerd using a chiller space is pretty limited more maintenance and build cost. Decided not to run a chiller and invested in a new case, and more radiators to deal with the issue. Just wish had more experience with single loops and get over the cold feet build on a single loop.
Appreciate all the help thank you.

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