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IIISLIDEIII

Junior Member

high flow next rgbpx lighting have a weak light

Friday, May 20th 2022, 4:26pm

Hi, i have my high flow next connected to the usb 2.0 heater port of my motherboard(asus apex z690).

The high flow next can manage up to 90 LEDs from its rgpx output so today I connected the rgb output of my gpu waterblock to it and I noticed that the waterblock lights are definitely weaker and less bright than when connected at the rgbpx output of the Octo.

It seems that the high flow next has little power to be able to power the rgb leds
I only connected the waterblock rgb to the rgbpx output of the high flow next, nothing else, so I am only requesting the power necessary to power the 9 LEDs of the waterblock, nothing more, it seems very strange to me that with so few LEDs there is already difficulty in feeding them, it should be able to manage 90 and here I struggle to manage 9.


Is it getting little power from the motherboard's usb?
I saw that there is an option in aqua suite that allows you to set 2 amps of demand from the usb instead of the standard 0.5, do I have to enable that?

This post has been edited 7 times, last edit by "IIISLIDEIII" (May 20th 2022, 4:56pm)

Friday, May 20th 2022, 5:10pm

My first question that came to mind was: How is the brightness of the high flow NEXT output set?
The second was: Why don't I see screenshots of the settings, so that the interested reader doesn't have to ask this question?

Lastly, there is the question of what water block you are using and what LEDs are illuminating it.


If you don't feed us with information, how can we help you?
To your question, if the port on your motherboard can deliver 2A you can do it, if not your motherboard will be damaged!
Es gibt keinen Ausweg, den ein Mensch nicht beschreitet, um die tatsächliche Arbeit des Denkens zu vermeiden.
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931), amerik. Erfinder

IIISLIDEIII

Junior Member

Friday, May 20th 2022, 5:18pm

My first question that came to mind was: How is the brightness of the high flow NEXT output set?
The second was: Why don't I see screenshots of the settings, so that the interested reader doesn't have to ask this question?

Lastly, there is the question of what water block you are using and what LEDs are illuminating it.


If you don't feed us with information, how can we help you?
To your question, if the port on your motherboard can deliver 2A you can do it, if not your motherboard will be damaged!

I set the brightness of the LEDs to 100% inside the aquasuite software.

The light is white.

The waterblock is a wb Ek with 9 drgb led.

If I connect the wb to the octo and set the white light to 100% I have double the light power compared to doing the same thing with the high flow next.

The USB 2.0 outputs of my motherboard do not report specifications in the manual of the card, so I assume that they respect what are the universal standards for USB 2.0, therefore 0.5 A of maximum power.but it's just my guess

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "IIISLIDEIII" (May 20th 2022, 5:21pm)

Friday, May 20th 2022, 5:43pm

Quoted

13.4.USB power supply
The high flow NEXT is supplied with power through the USB connection. In default
configuration, power consumption is limited to a maximum current of 0.5 Amps.
This value complies with the maximum allowed current according to the USB spec-
ification. If a large number of LED is integrated, the brightness is automatically re-
duced accordingly.
Alternatively, the current can be limited to a higher value of 2 Amps by activating
the check box. Do not use this function unless the connected USB port is explicitlyDo not use this function unless the connected USB port is explicitlyDo not use this function unless the connected USB port is explicitlyDo not use this function unless the connected USB port is explicitly
specified for a current of at least 2 Amps by the manufacturer! If the maximumspecified for a current of at least 2 Amps by the manufacturer! If the maximumspecified for a current of at least 2 Amps by the manufacturer! If the maximumspecified for a current of at least 2 Amps by the manufacturer! If the maximum
permissible current of the USB port is exceeded, permanent damage is possible!permissible current of the USB port is exceeded, permanent damage is possible!permissible current of the USB port is exceeded, permanent damage is possible!permissible current of the USB port is exceeded, permanent damage is possible!
Consult the manual of your motherboard/hub for details or contact customer sup-
port of the manufacturer/importer.
I doubt whether 9 additional LEDs are a larger number, but it could explain the behavior you describe.
Whether this is really the reason can best tell you the support: support@aqua-computer.de
Es gibt keinen Ausweg, den ein Mensch nicht beschreitet, um die tatsächliche Arbeit des Denkens zu vermeiden.
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931), amerik. Erfinder

IIISLIDEIII

Junior Member

Friday, May 20th 2022, 5:46pm

Quoted

13.4.USB power supply
The high flow NEXT is supplied with power through the USB connection. In default
configuration, power consumption is limited to a maximum current of 0.5 Amps.
This value complies with the maximum allowed current according to the USB spec-
ification. If a large number of LED is integrated, the brightness is automatically re-
duced accordingly.
Alternatively, the current can be limited to a higher value of 2 Amps by activating
the check box. Do not use this function unless the connected USB port is explicitlyDo not use this function unless the connected USB port is explicitlyDo not use this function unless the connected USB port is explicitlyDo not use this function unless the connected USB port is explicitly
specified for a current of at least 2 Amps by the manufacturer! If the maximumspecified for a current of at least 2 Amps by the manufacturer! If the maximumspecified for a current of at least 2 Amps by the manufacturer! If the maximumspecified for a current of at least 2 Amps by the manufacturer! If the maximum
permissible current of the USB port is exceeded, permanent damage is possible!permissible current of the USB port is exceeded, permanent damage is possible!permissible current of the USB port is exceeded, permanent damage is possible!permissible current of the USB port is exceeded, permanent damage is possible!
Consult the manual of your motherboard/hub for details or contact customer sup-
port of the manufacturer/importer.
I doubt whether 9 additional LEDs are a larger number, but it could explain the behavior you describe.
Whether this is really the reason can best tell you the support: support@aqua-computer.de

it also seems very strange to me that with only 9 leds it already reaches the limit but at this point I can't give myself any other explanations.
Anyway thank you, I try to feel the support

Friday, May 20th 2022, 7:29pm

This is an interesting observation. The Octo spec says the Molex power connector can draw 8 amps max @ 12VDC and 6 amps max @ 5VDC. I assume the 12VDC is powering the 8 PWM ports and the 5VDC is powering the RGBpx ports and probably the microcontroller. Ignoring the microcontroller, if each RGBpx port on the Octo can provide 3 amps max to 90 LEDs, that is 33ma max per LED, which is reasonable but may not be enough to drive all 90 LEDs at full white and 100% brightness.

The High Flow Next (HFN) only has USB power which can be set to 0.5 amps (default) or 2 amps. I assume that the microcontroller and display consume less than 0.5 amps and you would switch it to 2 amps if you plan to attach a significant amount of LEDs to the RGBpx port. In this case, ignoring the power the microcontroller consumes, if you connect 90 LEDs, each one is going to get 22ma max vs 33ma for the Octo RGBpx ports. So it seems that the RGBpx port on the HFN is "weaker" than the RGBPx ports on the OCto. White is the worst case color but I agree that adding 9 LEDs set to white should not exceed the current capacity of the HFN. I am wondering about the 10 LEDs in the HFN. Do you have them enabled? If yes, are they also set to white at 100% brightness? Are they as bright as expected?

I would definitely investigate changing the HFN USB port to 2-amp mode, but you need to make sure the USB port on your mobo can provide that much current. i would also search this forum and others for posts reporting the same issue you are observing. I checked the owner's manual for your mobo and I don't see a current spec on the USB2,0 headers, so your assumption that they are limited to 0.5 amps is probably correct. It does say that the front panel USB3.2 Gen 2x2 header has Quick Charge 4 support, up to 60 watts for charging, 3 amps max. If you had THIS CABLE you could try plugging the HFN USB into your front panel USB3.2 Gen2 connector, though that is not really a permanent solution. Another possibility is to install a HUBBY7 internal USB2.0 hub, power it from SATA power, plug it into your mobo USB2.0 header and plug the HFN USB cable into a port on the Hubby7. In this configuration, I think the LED power would come from Sata power, via the Hubby7, instead of from the mobo USB header. After the HFN is connected to the Sata powered USB hub, try switching it to 2 amp mode.

IIISLIDEIII

Junior Member

Saturday, May 21st 2022, 10:15am

This is an interesting observation.

thanks for sharing.
I have enabled the 10 LEDs of the HFN and they seem to light up very well, everything seems ok, what is not ok is when you do a lighting comparison on the components compared to the Octo, you realize that the HFN does not have enough energy to offer to the leds, everything you connect to HFN works but you will have less light on the leds than connecting them to the octo.

As for the octo, based on the calculations that you have shown, it too should struggle to drive 180 LEDs at 100% brightness but instead it does, indeed it does more.

At the moment I have 108 LEDs on one channel of the octo and 120 on the other channel (all white), so a total of 228 LEDs against the 180 declared, so I'm even going out of specification but despite this the LEDs continue to be more on and brighter than when you connect anything to the HFM.

Most likely the proof is that the usb power that the HFM gets from the motherboard is poor, I don't know what else to think and I'm not going to force the control to 2 amps because I wouldn't want to burn the usb port.

Saturday, May 21st 2022, 6:13pm

I agree you should not switch the HFN to 2-amp mode if it is plugged directly into a mobo USB2.0 header. I still think that adding a Hubby7 (NZXT also makes a nice internal hub) that is Sata powered would solve your problem. That or get a Farbwerk360.

This makes me wonder about the Farbwerk Nano (FWN) which has a single RGBpx port, USB power only, with the 2-amp option, just like the HFN. The owner's manuals for the HFN and the FWN both say, " In default configuration, power consumption is limited to a maximum current of 0.5 Amps. This value complies with the maximum allowed current according to the USB specification. If a large number of LED is integrated, the brightness is automatically reduced accordingly." I think this is the problem. 90 LEDs with 0.5A total current is only 5.5ma per LED. In 2-amp mode, each LED can draw 22ma of current. Using this number as an acceptable amount of current per LED, in 0.5A mode, the RGBpx port should be able to drive 22.5 LEDs at 22ma each. In your case, it is having trouble driving 9 LEDs (white).

I have a Farbwerk Nano sitting in a drawer that I bought on a whim for a future build. Since it seems to have the same limitations as the RGBpx port on the HFN, I can connect it, attached some LEDs, and see what happens. I will try to do this sometime this weekend and report back. Either your HFN has a problem or you are running up against the 0.5A current limitation. The math says that in .05A mode the RGBpx port should be able to provide 22ma of current to ~22 LEDs. You did not mention what brand of GPU block these 9 LEDs are part of. Maybe they require more current than the RGBpx LEDs and the HFN RGBpx port just can't provide enough current to drive them at the same brightness that the Octo RGBpx port can. I don't know how much DRGB LED current requirements vary from different manufacturers. A quick Google search says worst case is 50ma per LED, so even 22ma seems suspiciously low.

Remayz

Full Member

Saturday, May 21st 2022, 6:17pm

You could, if you really wanted those lights bright, get a powered internal USB hub as Speedy said.
Personally i have a Farbwerk Nano that i use externally to light my desk edge with 90 LEDs. i did set it to 2 amps and it can run all day like that, despite the spec being 500mA per USB2 port. The ports have to supply at least 500mA, but most can take more than that. The thing is AC have no way of knowing which motherboard supports what so, it's 500ma by default with the option to switch.

To be honest, you most likely don't need the whole 2 amps. I've personally set it to 1.3A and i can't really see much improvement going to 2. results will vary depending on what strips you use and what lighting you use too. white would be challenging :)

IIISLIDEIII

Junior Member

Saturday, May 21st 2022, 6:24pm

You could, if you really wanted those lights bright, get a powered internal USB hub as Speedy said.
Personally i have a Farbwerk Nano that i use externally to light my desk edge with 90 LEDs. i did set it to 2 amps and it can run all day like that, despite the spec being 500mA per USB2 port. The ports have to supply at least 500mA, but most can take more than that. The thing is AC have no way of knowing which motherboard supports what so, it's 500ma by default with the option to switch.

To be honest, you most likely don't need the whole 2 amps. I've personally set it to 1.3A and i can't really see much improvement going to 2. results will vary depending on what strips you use and what lighting you use too. white would be challenging :)


I agree you should not switch the HFN to 2-amp mode if it is plugged directly into a mobo USB2.0 header. I still think that adding a Hubby7 (NZXT also makes a nice internal hub) that is Sata powered would solve your problem. That or get a Farbwerk360.

This makes me wonder about the Farbwerk Nano (FWN) which has a single RGBpx port, USB power only, with the 2-amp option, just like the HFN. The owner's manuals for the HFN and the FWN both say, " In default configuration, power consumption is limited to a maximum current of 0.5 Amps. This value complies with the maximum allowed current according to the USB specification. If a large number of LED is integrated, the brightness is automatically reduced accordingly." I think this is the problem. 90 LEDs with 0.5A total current is only 5.5ma per LED. In 2-amp mode, each LED can draw 22ma of current. Using this number as an acceptable amount of current per LED, in 0.5A mode, the RGBpx port should be able to drive 22.5 LEDs at 22ma each. In your case, it is having trouble driving 9 LEDs (white).

I have a Farbwerk Nano sitting in a drawer that I bought on a whim for a future build. Since it seems to have the same limitations as the RGBpx port on the HFN, I can connect it, attached some LEDs, and see what happens. I will try to do this sometime this weekend and report back. Either your HFN has a problem or you are running up against the 0.5A current limitation. The math says that in .05A mode the RGBpx port should be able to provide 22ma of current to ~22 LEDs. You did not mention what brand of GPU block these 9 LEDs are part of. Maybe they require more current than the RGBpx LEDs and the HFN RGBpx port just can't provide enough current to drive them at the same brightness that the Octo RGBpx port can. I don't know how much DRGB LED current requirements vary from different manufacturers. A quick Google search says worst case is 50ma per LED, so even 22ma seems suspiciously low.

Thank you very much.
The wb is from Ek, now I can't tell you how much its LEDs absorb because I don't know, I just know that on the Octo it shines great, on the HFM it looks pale.

Anyway I just ordered a farbwerk 360 so we can solve any doubts and I only use the HFM to do what I bought it for, to measure the flow, a shame because if it worked I would have saved the farbwerk money.

Saturday, May 21st 2022, 9:53pm

THIS PAGE on the EK site has a table of all (?) the EK blocks, what kind of LEDs they have, and power consumption including total amps and watts. They have several different types of LEDs. It does not say if these numbers are for worst case white at 100% brightness, but it's at least a starting point. Since you ordered a Farbwerk360, this is now academic.

Also, note that the Farbwerk360 and Farbwerk Nano support Transparency. When you stack different RGB effects (they call them LED controllers), the highest one in the stack blocks the effects under it. With the Farbwerk360, you can set a Transparency level which allows effects further down the stack to bleed through the effect above them. This is a powerful feature that allows some interesting things to be done. I am not sure if any other device with an RGBpx port supports Transparency (other than the Farbwerk Nano). I know the Octo does not and I suspect that the Quadro and other devices that have an RGBpx port also do not. If you are just setting solid colors or using basic presets, y ou may never use this feature. If you start customizing presets and stacking them, you probably will.

IIISLIDEIII

Junior Member

Sunday, May 22nd 2022, 7:01pm

THIS PAGE on the EK site has a table of all (?) the EK blocks, what kind of LEDs they have, and power consumption including total amps and watts. They have several different types of LEDs. It does not say if these numbers are for worst case white at 100% brightness, but it's at least a starting point. Since you ordered a Farbwerk360, this is now academic.

Also, note that the Farbwerk360 and Farbwerk Nano support Transparency. When you stack different RGB effects (they call them LED controllers), the highest one in the stack blocks the effects under it. With the Farbwerk360, you can set a Transparency level which allows effects further down the stack to bleed through the effect above them. This is a powerful feature that allows some interesting things to be done. I am not sure if any other device with an RGBpx port supports Transparency (other than the Farbwerk Nano). I know the Octo does not and I suspect that the Quadro and other devices that have an RGBpx port also do not. If you are just setting solid colors or using basic presets, y ou may never use this feature. If you start customizing presets and stacking them, you probably will.


a guy in the other thread I opened mentioned something to me, thank you, when I get it I'll do some tests,thank you