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cosmos

Junior Member

hi all

Mittwoch, 19. September 2012, 02:25

Just a few questions
I have recenty got a aquero5 pro which i have semi installed as i dont have a long power cable yet
I have a tube meter that is connected to the MB usb it is seen in aquasuite, i have values and have set the alarm values there.
But i cannot access its data links in the aquasuite 2012 all i get is firmware version in the tubemeter settings tab
It is seen in the suite2012 but due to it not giving a reading i cannot configure it to give alarm shutdown via the relay via the aquero 5
I have tried to connect it to the low speed aquabus with the http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info…roducts_id=1969 and i get no readings at all ....from either suite no flashing led
any words of wisdom will be appreciated
Secondly i would like my d5 to be controlled by the aquero ...i have only one bay spare(aquero5 is going to get mounted in there) and to get the poweradjust 2 well..
im not really sure where it will go as all my MB usb adapters are used and i will not really have a mounting point for it. ?(
The forums from what i have managed to assimilate seem to point towards fan 4 pwm as an connection point am i correct in thinking this or do i definately need to get the poweradjust 2 ?
i have seen on the shop that there is another cable that is avaliable that is a 4 pin aquabus to a 4 pin connecter could this work for the tube meter http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info…roducts_id=2846 as a connecter to the aq5?
Any help in this would be greatly appreciated

Mittwoch, 19. September 2012, 04:23

Having fought the tubemeter a lot, I feel able to answer this. Both cables you Identified will power the tubemeter. The first one is the best choice, you might have the connector on backwards at the tubemeter. Pin 1 on the tubemeter is 5vdc power, but it is VERY difficult to identify, You might have it correct if you can get a firmware reading from Aquasuite 2012. As far as getting a reading, go to the overview pages, click on the gear icon for page settings, click on the radio button for allow changes, then click on the overview page again. It should switch back to the main view page with a Circle plus for add in the lower right corner. Click that and select dat source should appear, expand the Aquaero 5, expand level sensors and click tubemeter. and then OK, pick the way you want level displayed. Done. The Aquaero 5 information page is selected from the Information page tab on the left side, click the tab and the right hand side will give two colums of AQ5 information screens. On the left is the list of what is available, the level sensor is under "Other" when you click on the drop down scroll box. Right click and drag the creen for tubemeter over to the right hand side and it will show up on the AQ5. Click the floppy disk icon to save the settings. This is where you get rid of AQ5 display screens you dont want also. Just click the red X on the Displayed screens and it is gone from the AQ5.
For the level alarm, under the Aquaero 5 tab, click Alarm Configuration, on the right hand side click Fill level alarm, select data source at tubemeter, enable alarm, set actions, done. The Old Aquasuite 4.72 will not detect a device on the Aquabus, only for items connected via USB to the motherboard. AS2012 will find it in either place, the settings are the same as described above.
.
You did not say what kind of D5 you have, but it does not really matter. If it is the Aquacomputer version, you connect it to the high speed Aquabus with the second cable you listed, and plug it in to a four pin Molex PSu and done. If it is any other kind, use http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info…roducts_id=2345 and plug it in to any one of the fan controllers and a PSU plug and done. You can use the same adapter cable to plug into a Power Adjust 2. and the PA2 via High speed Aquabus to the AQ5. The PA2 needs to be connected Via USB to flash new firmware and change the device ID, but other than that it can be disconnected from USB.
AMD FX-8150 OctoCore O.C. 18% to 4.2 GHz on ASUS M5A99X EVO with 16 GB Corsair Dominator W. C. RAM, 2 nVIDIA Geforce 560TI W.C. in SLI, six Western Digital drives for a total of 4.07 TBytes, AquaComputer Aquero 5 Pro, AquaComputer D5 pump, Multiswitch USB, tubemeter and Kyros CPU block. Two coolant loops,CPU & SLI, MB, RAM and AQ5, with two flow meters. Running Windows 7 Professional 64, and using Open Hardware Monitor v0.5.1Beta Aquasuite B16 hardware temps.

cosmos

Junior Member

Donnerstag, 20. September 2012, 00:26

Hi LarryWill
I have deleted the aquasuite4.72 now only have the aquasuite 2012
Should i stay with the tubemeter conected to the MB usb or should it be aquabus?
Just a little problem still, in the data source page i have 2 options the aquero5 and just below it i find tube meter
When i chose aquero5 and expand it i find tubemeter, once selected i find it in the information tab and also find it in the alarm configure tab.... but i cant get it to give me a reading in any if the tabs it stays 0%
However if i chose the tubemeter in the data source page i will get a reading in the overview page ,but will not find it in the information tab and in alarm configure tab the reading is 0%
in the mean time however i have managed to bork the tubemeter and will need to get another before i can go further :pinch:
the D5 is a standard with a power and tacho cables so will go with the http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info…roducts_id=2345 if the fan controller can cope with the load/heat output
as i have Fan 1 with 1 gentle typhoon ,Fan 2 with 3 typhoon ,Fan 3 with 2 typhoon on speed curves and Fan 4 with D5 on a constant speed ,i am looking at about 100 liters per hour or lower if i can get it slower
or is it wise to get a PA2 just for the D5?
thank you for your time in advance :)

Donnerstag, 20. September 2012, 02:04

I dont know if you have the water block for the AQ5 or just the passive heat sink, If you have the water block use the AQ5 for the pump and fans.
If you only have the passive heat sink, go with the PA2. The PA2 can be mounted any place, you dont need the drive bay mount for it. Or get the water block. I think they are about the same cost after the extra fittings. Just dont waste your money on the PA2 Ultra, you dont need it, the standard will work just fine for you.
On the other hand, if your pump has a tacho output, just connect that plug to the AQ5 fan header of your choice, and plug the D5 power into the PSU. Then you will have a constant speed pump with monitoring from the AQ5 and no extra wires required. The pump will run at max speed though, unless it is one of the kind with a speed selector dial on it.
I would put the tubemeter on the Aquabus. Simpler.
When I can afford it, I intend to get a mps 40 and bork my tubemeter deliberatly. I drive a semi and I am just LOOKing to run over something! :evil:
AMD FX-8150 OctoCore O.C. 18% to 4.2 GHz on ASUS M5A99X EVO with 16 GB Corsair Dominator W. C. RAM, 2 nVIDIA Geforce 560TI W.C. in SLI, six Western Digital drives for a total of 4.07 TBytes, AquaComputer Aquero 5 Pro, AquaComputer D5 pump, Multiswitch USB, tubemeter and Kyros CPU block. Two coolant loops,CPU & SLI, MB, RAM and AQ5, with two flow meters. Running Windows 7 Professional 64, and using Open Hardware Monitor v0.5.1Beta Aquasuite B16 hardware temps.

cosmos

Junior Member

Donnerstag, 20. September 2012, 18:04

Well i have the passive heat sink which has come as standard so will be going the PA2 way as i would not be able to do any plumbing on the AQ5 as the mount space for the AQ5 is slightly inpaired by one of the radiators,the AQ5 will fit in there fine with about 7cm to spare from the radiator which will work out way to tight with fitings and tubes
Im glad to hear that the PA2 can be used as a stand alone, my pump has a selector switch but i dont fully trust it as at startups the speed always varies it will say start up at 2000rpm and next time it starts up at 2200 up to +/- 500rpm either way off the 2000rpm so would prefer it to run at a constant preset voltage ,but with the ability to tweak the speed to the lowest speed it will go to get the maximum cooling capability from the radiators but will increase slightly as the heat builds up not inline with the fans but to optimum flow rate once i have worked it out
i have had a look at the mps delta 40 ...well what can i say ...it will be more of a purchase and when i get it realise i dont know squat about using it ,but it does look the bees knees and from what i can make out should replace the tubemeter
My tubemeter will be used mainly as a leak detector as im really petrified of a leak so have a 250 mm long 50mm wide narrow tube and a 10% loss from the tubemeter will equate to about 20 ml spill to execute a emergency shutdown as i dont have any turbulance up on the top its perfect for me ,if i can get it to work
This build for me has been a very steep learning curve as its my first try at watercooling , i normally just vaporphase cool the chip and sit in a sauna for hours on end with all the heat generated from the cooler and gfx card :pinch:
So this build has been done a little wrong ,i built it... then realised i needed to know what was going on as pump ,fans and radiators in a fully enclosed case with no window made checks a little hard, even when i made checks i would not be able to see if everything was working
Then i found aquacooling ...and i have been like a little kid in a sweet shop ,until i realised the cable mods ,the draining of system.....borking brand new kit ,importing stuff and waiting.... is waging war on my wallet Ps: ill send you my borked tubemeter for the semi 8o as i carelessly connected it to the IR-led contacts and sent 12v down the signal unit :(
now the wait begins for all the parts ...again

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »cosmos« (20. September 2012, 18:05)

Freitag, 21. September 2012, 01:38

Waiting for new parts of the TOY is common in this class of PLAY Time. I just called in sick so I could get my latest shipment. 8o
Good thing I am self Employed, my boss really is easy to fool! :thumbsup: (She who must be obeyed is something else again :rolleyes: ) It is a good thing I listed to Dad and spent more money on a good couch than I did on the bed! :thumbsup: 8o
Ok, seriously, sounds to me like you are past the hump of the learning curve.
.
Two things to remind you about,
#1, when you install everything, remember to have the PA2 connected to USB on first startup, You can pull the USB wire after you flash the PA2 to the latest firmware which is inside AS2012 b16, or whatever the version is when you get the new toys. Dont worry about the pump. In fact, if possiable flash the PA2 BEFORE you tear the old system apart, then install it to the High Speed Aquabus with a three wire cable. Also, when you have the PA2 on the USB, check and make sure the PA2 startboost function is turned OFF.( I have heard that you can do this through AQB now, but why take the chance?) Unfortunatly, I dont know exactly how to do that, but it should be fairly easy to figure out. You will then be able to use "Start Boost" from AS2012 without having any conflicts between the PA2 and AQ5. Just leave the PA2 ID number at the default since you only have One of them, (For now ;) ) In fact, now that I think about it, connecting the PA2 to USB, (and PSU) before you take things apart is really good idea. Nobody has talked about it, but I suspect that when you connect the PA2 to USB it will show up as a sperate item on AS2012, but if it does not, just connect a fan or themo sensor to the PA2 as a temporary measure until you get the thing re programed. Once the PA2 is connected by AQB, it positivly will not show up until a temp sensor of the pump are connected, and then it shows up as an extra fan. Just rename it PUMP and play!
.
#2, be ready with a spare small air fan when you get going with the new parts. I am 100% sure the AQ5 can handle the heat load from the small number of fans you are connecting to it, but IF the case has no air flow up there in the corner, you Might need to put a tiny fan up there to give it fresh air. Don't worry about it, the AQ5 will just run the fans at 100% if it gets too hot until it gets a chance to cool off. Remember, a fan running at 25% heats up the AQ5 a LOT more than a fan running at 100%
Have fun!
AMD FX-8150 OctoCore O.C. 18% to 4.2 GHz on ASUS M5A99X EVO with 16 GB Corsair Dominator W. C. RAM, 2 nVIDIA Geforce 560TI W.C. in SLI, six Western Digital drives for a total of 4.07 TBytes, AquaComputer Aquero 5 Pro, AquaComputer D5 pump, Multiswitch USB, tubemeter and Kyros CPU block. Two coolant loops,CPU & SLI, MB, RAM and AQ5, with two flow meters. Running Windows 7 Professional 64, and using Open Hardware Monitor v0.5.1Beta Aquasuite B16 hardware temps.

cosmos

Junior Member

Donnerstag, 27. September 2012, 00:28

Hey LarryWill
W :D :D t the toys have arrived, bank manager is screaming blue murder....heh
Connected the tube meter as you described to the aquabus ,it works a treat. It seems i do have a touch of turbulence which makes it vary slightly but its only 1% drop either way
also connected PA2 did the update connected the pump while connected to the usb and it showed up as a fan:-( i cant seem to get it to register as a pump
disconected the usb and via AQ5 changed the name in configuration tab ,but wont show up in the AQ5 under the pump section, is that only for aquastream pumps ?
or have i done something wrong again?

now for an open question
How is the pump speed worked out in conjunction with the system is the math done ...fans(cfm),rads(area) and amount of fluid/hour(pumpspeed)..ie heat dissapation
or is it done via heat generated (cpu heat and gfx card) minus the cfm x area
reason why i ask this i would like to get fans to absolute minimum but pump to increase flow at low cfm speeds,but at higher temps i would like to increase fan speed but lower pump speed so i would get more fluid contact cooling(longer time in radiators) at low speeds but more heat dissaption at higher speeds(less time in radiators) but with higher fan speeds.... or does this not work in real time
What is the optimum pump speed in a system?
i have read that its a 100 liters per hour
i have been building the system as its been running i have done the usb connection to PA2 and cannot change its name from fan , got a small fan to cool the corner but not connected it yet the temps seem to stay at 45 degrees so well within the range of the AQ
Ty for all your advice ,think i would be bald from pulling my hair out while trying to learn about all these quirks in the system with German mounting instructions :whistling:
But saying that i really love the control features awsome bit of kit

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »cosmos« (27. September 2012, 00:31)

Donnerstag, 27. September 2012, 05:37

COOL!

Just tell the bank manager to go talk to SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED and get back to you later. She will spend so much talking to the mirror she will forget about your new toys. :evil:

As I understand the current AS2012 the pumps tab is only for the Aquastreams. I have the AC D5 connected via USB and AQB, no change. Yours will show up in the fans section, just rename it pump and forget about it.

.

Now for your open question.

Yes and No. The fan/pump speed is not calculated at all. It is adjusted as temperature changes based on the controller you set up. I use CPU outlet temp to control the CPU rad, and Radiator inlet temp to control the main radiator fans.

First, I am a Mechanical engineer with 20 years experiance in Thermodynamics. While each of the things you mention can be true in a specific situation, the actual Laws of Thermodynamics are that Q=mcp(T1-T2) and Q=UA (T1-T2) (The greek letters dont work in ASCI) Bottom line, Faster flow of air or collant means faster heat removal rates. For computers, if you change pump flow from 50lph to 100lph, you get twice the amount of heat removed. Period. That does not mean that readiator outlet temp is cut in half. In fact, in some conditions, it may in fact go up a tad. But not really. Coolant residance time in the fins is B.S. Unles we are talking about pump cavitationa and vortexes in tubes, and laminar vs turbulent flow (Which is part of the U in the second equation)

.

With a WC computer the heat loads are so small compared to measurement errors that the equations are foolish. They are a lot of fun, but really dont reflect actual thermodynamic facts. What we need to consider in computers is NOISE and not frying the chips during max loads, either games or benchmarks.

.

I sugest you set up the pump(fan 5) as the output of a curve controller with CPU outlet or radiator inlet or radiator outlet as the sensor.Run the computer for 30 minutes at idle, no load situation with pump and fans at minimum. Record the temperatures. Then max out the computer , graphics benchmarks, cpu benchmarks or games, or video editing, whatever the highest useage is and run that for 30 minutes and record the temps with pumps and fans at minimum, and then max out the pumps and fans for anouther 30 min and record those temps. Use the numbers from the second run to set your alarms, ie highest load, minimum cooling. Use the other two as starting and ending points for pump and fan curves.

.

Personally, I have the pump running at 50% minimum with fans at 30%, then the pump ramps up to about 75% before the fans reach 50%, the pump goes 100% before the fans reach 75%, and then the fans max out after that.

.

Personally, the most fun with the Aquasuite and Aquaero 5 is playing with the control curves aand running tests to see how it works out. Mine is a little more complicated because I have a single 120mm radiator between the CPU block and my dual SLI GPU cards, then MB, RAM and AQ5 blocks to a tripple 120mm radiator. Plus I have two fans cooling the HDDs, all six of them, and one more as a case exhaust fan. I have the fans pulling air into the case to maintain positive pressure inside the case to reduce dust buildup, which means my case ambient temp is equal to the radiator air outlet temps, which is why I have WC on RAM and MB. I lost a bit of air flow through the radiators doing it this way, but the dust problem is gone. So I am Happy. At MAX load, my UPS reports 650 watts of power usage, and the AQ5 reports change between 300 and 800 watts.

.

Go ahead and run the three base line test, and then have fun! You can manually adjust the points on the curve controller to arrive at the old high school bell curve if you want. Just click on the red dot on the curve and move it.



Enjoy!



Larry
AMD FX-8150 OctoCore O.C. 18% to 4.2 GHz on ASUS M5A99X EVO with 16 GB Corsair Dominator W. C. RAM, 2 nVIDIA Geforce 560TI W.C. in SLI, six Western Digital drives for a total of 4.07 TBytes, AquaComputer Aquero 5 Pro, AquaComputer D5 pump, Multiswitch USB, tubemeter and Kyros CPU block. Two coolant loops,CPU & SLI, MB, RAM and AQ5, with two flow meters. Running Windows 7 Professional 64, and using Open Hardware Monitor v0.5.1Beta Aquasuite B16 hardware temps.

Radiator residence time

Samstag, 29. September 2012, 03:51

Just making a point, not a debate. Radiator residence time is very important for any water cooling system, from your car to your computer (eg, just remove the thermostat from your car radiator and see what happens). For my system, using a Cuplex HF and 2x7970 waterblocks, increasing flow from 40l/h to 80 l/h really didn't do very much, maybe 1 degree or so. Just saying... ;)
AsRock E3Gen3, 2700k @4.6 with cuplex HF, 2 HD7970s with aquaC waterblocks, 16G GSkill 2133, TJ09, ST1500 ps, plextor 256 ssd, 2x1TB WD VRs raid 1, HP 30 inch. Aquacomputer 720XT Mk IV.

Samstag, 29. September 2012, 05:18

Removing the thermostat from a car does not affect radiator 'residence time', what it does is reduce backpressure on the coolant pump to the point the pump starts to cavitate, and INCREASES flow thru the radiator. This results in MORE heat removed, thus lower coolant temperatures. Remember, the thermostat is in place to Maintain the engine at a design temp, and the radiator size and air flow are intended to maintain that temp even in Reno at 105F. 99% of the time a car is operating, the thermostate is only 10 to 30% open.



Sorry, but this urban myth is a sore point with me. It is totally wrong.



Also, at the level of heat removal and flows we have in the home PC market, the accuracy of the instruments, flow and temperature, are not anything like accurate enough. Set your AQ5 to calculate power usage for the CPU, it will calculate a differential temperature, muliply it by flow, and apply a specific heat capacity correction factor. A typical CPU worthy of water cooling is rated at 125 watts of heat dissipation. If you watch the power (heat) calculation on the AQ5 it will go from 60 to 180 watts with only a .1 or .2 degree change in temperatures, or a.1 unit change in flow. This is not a function of the thermodynamics, it is a function of the measurement precision and accuracy.



Part of the problem with this discussion is that the average person does not know the difference between HEAT and TEMPERATURE. One Brittish Thermal Unit of heat is defined as that amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one pound of water 1 degree Farenheight. Also, it takes around 1,000 BTU to melt one pound of ice and turn it into one pound of water at 32F.



In the example you gave, I am willing to bet the temperature differnce between inlet and out of your radiator averages 2. to 3.5 Degrees C under normal maximum load. If outlet temp is 40C at 40l/h, then going to 80l/h would reduce radiator outlet temp to about 39C, this results in more of a temperature differnce between CPU core temps and the water block surface, which will result in more rapid heat transfer and lower the CPU core temp by about 3 to 6C. Which is the ultimate use of water cooling on a computer, Keeping CPU and GPU temps as low as possiable without making a lot of noise from 747 size air fans. So get Open hardware monitor or AIDA64 fired up on your machine and repeate your test. Mark CPU Core and Die temps at 40 l/h and then again at 80 l/h. Allow 30 minutes for temps to stabalize and keep the same CPU load. I expect your CPU temps to be 5 to 10 degrees C lower with the higher flow.



Sorry, but you punched a button of mine.
AMD FX-8150 OctoCore O.C. 18% to 4.2 GHz on ASUS M5A99X EVO with 16 GB Corsair Dominator W. C. RAM, 2 nVIDIA Geforce 560TI W.C. in SLI, six Western Digital drives for a total of 4.07 TBytes, AquaComputer Aquero 5 Pro, AquaComputer D5 pump, Multiswitch USB, tubemeter and Kyros CPU block. Two coolant loops,CPU & SLI, MB, RAM and AQ5, with two flow meters. Running Windows 7 Professional 64, and using Open Hardware Monitor v0.5.1Beta Aquasuite B16 hardware temps.

Sonntag, 30. September 2012, 02:37

Whoa, guess i did. Like I said, not debating... Empirical data... Amazing thing it is. A few years ago I did the thermostat (actually a flow restrict or to slow coolant flow) thing with my 502 side oiler and engine temp and oil temp were up over 10 degrees running at Dover at above 160 for 30 min. My engine guys had some choice words that day.

Anyway, you are right that the power calc is inherently inaccurate/imprecise and not comparable between WC loops. My 2700k draws/emits 122-128 watts with open hardware monitor, HW64' realtemp(or is it coretemp) aid64 etc - sure I have them. 2x7970's def draw more than the 160 watt difference to the 280 watts i see in BF3 so, yes power calc in AQ 2012 is only an eternally comparable figure for a given water loop.
Cheers.
AsRock E3Gen3, 2700k @4.6 with cuplex HF, 2 HD7970s with aquaC waterblocks, 16G GSkill 2133, TJ09, ST1500 ps, plextor 256 ssd, 2x1TB WD VRs raid 1, HP 30 inch. Aquacomputer 720XT Mk IV.

cosmos

Junior Member

Freitag, 12. Oktober 2012, 01:21

Hi all,larrywill
sorry not been active
have beeen slowly ,i mean very slowly been braiding the cables and have done a few tests, i still got to finaly get it all mounted....
from the 30 september to the 7 october i did a few runs on the setup
i set fan 5= pump to follow a curve from min running power 6.5 volt to a step up of a value of 25 %on the cpu outlet(faster temperature variation)
fans 1-4 were set to the same setup but from 4.5 volt with a set up value 25%on the pump outlet(slower to pick up temperature variations)
well that is my theory
fan and pump minimum voltages have beeen found and used as a basis of a three step controller with the progressiveness of a curve controller
now the rig consists of one triple ,one double,and one single,they are essentially set in a small to big set up..ie 1,2,3
so i had set points to work to in that in overall test i have found
that water temperature never will not exceed 29 deg c and absolute min temp on startup has been lowest at 19 deg c
the core will however not exceed 60 deg c under full load(intel burn test with max load)
......however i broke stuff as i have been asembling so i gotta fix it and will post more detail asap
again thanks for the solid advice
:D