Zitat von »sebastian«

Zitat von »torexko«

EK officially advertises a conductivy of their Cryofuel coolants to be 1,04 ±10% mS/cm

maybe a confusion with the units:


1 mS/cm (millisiemens/centimeter) == 1000 µS/cm (mikrosiemens/cm) : this is the same like water in a river. Drinking water have a conductivity from 300 to 800 µS/cm

when they mean
1 mS/cm (microsiemens/cm) == 1 µS/cm i cant belive this, because a fresh bottle destilled water from the Supermarket has a conductivity from 2...5 µS/cm, when you add some corrosion protection the conductivity is rising.


1 µS/cm == 100 µS/m (centimeter to meter)



The problem is that if the conductivity of the cooling medium is too high, something corrodes at some point in the loop.
Due to inductive coupling and different metals in the loop, a voltage is created in the water loop. The higher the conductivity, the faster (because the current is greater) the corrosion will be.



The Next sensor can measure higher conductivys but the accurycy is lower.

I have recently installed a flow NEXT sensor in my loop, and flushed and refilled with new Cryofuel Clear coolant. Initial reading was 125 us/cm. In the days after that, my readings have varied from 105us/cm to 180us/cm, but mostly staying around 125-130us/cm. What could be the cause for such a variance in the readings? Water temps stay between 21C and 34C.

We don't know the ingredients of Cryofuel Clear.
The high flow NEXT uses a temperature compensation for the conductivity. If this coolant behave different to water or DP Ultra it will change with the temperature of course.

On the product page for their EK-CryoFuel Clear (Premix 1000mL), EK claims: "Electrical Conductivity (mS/cm): 1,04 ±10%"

Zitat

Technical data:
Color: Clear (transparent)
Content: 1000 mL
Electrical Conductivity (mS/cm): 1,04 ±10%
UV Reactive: No
Neutral pH: 6 - 8
Decomposition temperature: >65°C (>150°F)*
Recommended use temperature range: 5- to 60°C (40- to 140°F)

Is it possible to turn off the display on High flow NEXT?

I have 2 high flow next units since I have separate loops for my CPU and GPUs. I am testing both on my test bench using new EK cryofuel clear. Both make a high pitched click and one gives a conductivity of 0 with the other one 79 to 100. They are both on the same line. Reducing the flow doesn’t seem to help the noise that much. My older 2 high flow sensors don’t make any noise at all even with flow rates greater than 200l/hr.

0FA1AA01-826C-4620-988D-B883BE8C5CBD.jpeg

Here is the data from HWInfo.

That's about a 5% delta in flow rate between the two units, which is not atypical for analog flow meters, but I expected better accuracy/repeatability for digital.

And that water quality result is dismal... the devices may not be calibrated for EK fluid. but I would expect a much closer result between the units.

I expected better results as well. My older aquacomputer flow sensors work well with no noise even with flow rates greater than 300l/hr. I was looking forward to having conductivity along with temp and flow rate as routine data for my loops, but this is disappointing. Hopefully it will be addressed quickly.

Zitat von »Hopper64«

Here is the data from HWInfo.

@Hopper64, do you know why the Conductivity value is missing for the bottom unit in the HWiNFO report?
The Water Quality calculation may default to 100% if no value is received?

I thought about that too. I assume since it’s zero it’s not reported but I don’t know for sure. I’m using the latest beta of hardware info 64.

Zitat von »Hopper64«

Here is the data from HWInfo.

There is such a HUGE apparent disparity here.
EK claims: "Electrical Conductivity (mS/cm): 1,04 ±10%".
Which I believe converts to 1.040,000 µS/cm ±10%.
Yet the high flow next reads 73,000 µS/cm.

Is my math fail?

Zitat von »InfoSeeker«

Which I believe converts to 1.040,000 µS/cm ±10%.
Yet the high flow next reads 73,000 µS/cm.

Is my math fail?

Ask EK, 1000µS is the same water quality as a river or a lake. this is far away from any that you can use in a water cooling loop.
The high flow read valid conductivity data up to 200µS. For everything above this value, the sensor read a value from 200 µS ... X.

The conductividy from normal tap water (in Germany) is 250 µS ... 800 µS.
But everyone can decide for himself what coolant he puts into his loop.

I contacted EK about the CryoFuel conductivity and I got a response directly from their "QA and coolant providers". These are the most important parts:

Zitat

The average conductivity of EK-CryoFuel Clear Premix is 2.33 mS / cm2 or 2330 µS / cm2. Conductivity is measured during production and when charged with a certified and calibrated conductivity meter, at 20 ° C. The high conductivity is due to the corrosion inhibitor (confirmed by tests). The inhibitor is located in the liquid and upon contact with the reactive metal (copper, aluminum, iron) forms a protective layer and thus prevents corrosion, while being consumed. The more inhibitor is consumed, the lower the conductivity of the fluid.

Zitat

As far as I was able to deduce from the e-mail below (my e-mail), the Aqua Computer High Flow NEXT sensor is used to measure the conductivity of distilled water. As a result, it is calibrated to a lower value. On the website, the manufacturer (AquaComputer) states that the reading reads between 2 and 200 µS. Given that the EK-CroyFuel Clear Premix has a conductivity 11x higher than the maximum where the sensor is calibrated, the readings are certainly not correct. A sensor calibrated at least in the range of 1-5000 µS would be needed for proper measurement.

Zitat

The manufacturer's (AquaComputer) website also states: “If corrosion occurs or if the corrosion protection inhibitors are used up, the conductivity of the coolant increases significantly. In this case, the coolant should be replaced." This is not entirely true (for EK CryoFuel), because until the corrosion inhibitor starts to work, it is present in the liquid, hence the high conductivity. Over time, the inhibitor is consumed because it blocks corrosion and the conductivity of the fluid begins to decline. However, this statement holds true for distilled water; the greater the presence of corrosion in the system, the higher the water conductivity.

Zitat

The quality of the coolant (CryoFuel) based on conductivity can be assessed, but not with the said sensor (too small range, I don’t know if it has a calibration certificate). The conductivity of EK-CryuFuel Clear Premix ranges between 2200 and 2500 µS. Conditionally the liquid is OK up to 1500 µS, if of course, the other properties are OK - color, sediment. If the liquid is clear / slightly yellowish, with a characteristic odor-free odor, the liquid is OK.

At this point we have to say that we do not know the ingredients used in EK coolants.

If EK makes this statement, then the coolant behaves contrary to most other coolants on the market due to the assumed conductivity of the inhibitor.
Aqua Computer coolants are designed to minimize conductivity. We do this to minimize current flow in the event of a leak or splash. This is the best way to protect our customers hardware. Highly conductive coolants would lead to large currents and thus quickly damage the hardware in such cases.

Hello, when ist the High Flow Next shipping again? Thanks in advance

Currently, the delivery time of ~ 60 days seems to fit quite well, at least here in Germany, but the condition is that you order.
When the high flow NEXT will be back in stock, Aquacomputer will probably not be able to tell you.

May I ask what the outcome of this was? I read the entire thread and what I got out of it is that apparently Aquacomputer and EK have very different opinions on how conductive coolant fluid should be. EK's coolant, when new, has conductivity that is ~11X higher than what Aquacomputer considers acceptable. With EK coolant, the conductivity is initially very high and decreases as the corrosion inhibitor is used up. Aquacomputer coolant starts out with a very low conductivity and increases as the coolant ages. I can see Sebastian's point that having highly conductive coolant would be a bad thing if it leaks, spills, or splashes onto electronic components. It seems that you cannot use a High Flow Next to monitor the "quality" of EK CryoFuel. So did you change your coolant to Aquacomputer or did you abandon the idea of using a High Flow Next to monitor EK CryoFuel coolant conductivity? I wonder what the initial conductivity is of other coolants and will attempt to gather some data. It seems to me that it may behoove Aquacomputer to include a disclaimer that the High Flow Next coolant conductivity measurements will not work with EK CyroFuel coolant, and possibly other brands as well. I would really like to know what you ended up doing.

Zitat von »torexko«

I contacted EK about the CryoFuel conductivity and I got a response directly from their "QA and coolant providers". These are the most important parts:

Zitat

The average conductivity of EK-CryoFuel Clear Premix is 2.33 mS / cm2 or 2330 µS / cm2. Conductivity is measured during production and when charged with a certified and calibrated conductivity meter, at 20 ° C. The high conductivity is due to the corrosion inhibitor (confirmed by tests). The inhibitor is located in the liquid and upon contact with the reactive metal (copper, aluminum, iron) forms a protective layer and thus prevents corrosion, while being consumed. The more inhibitor is consumed, the lower the conductivity of the fluid.

Zitat

As far as I was able to deduce from the e-mail below (my e-mail), the Aqua Computer High Flow NEXT sensor is used to measure the conductivity of distilled water. As a result, it is calibrated to a lower value. On the website, the manufacturer (AquaComputer) states that the reading reads between 2 and 200 µS. Given that the EK-CroyFuel Clear Premix has a conductivity 11x higher than the maximum where the sensor is calibrated, the readings are certainly not correct. A sensor calibrated at least in the range of 1-5000 µS would be needed for proper measurement.

Zitat

The manufacturer's (AquaComputer) website also states: “If corrosion occurs or if the corrosion protection inhibitors are used up, the conductivity of the coolant increases significantly. In this case, the coolant should be replaced." This is not entirely true (for EK CryoFuel), because until the corrosion inhibitor starts to work, it is present in the liquid, hence the high conductivity. Over time, the inhibitor is consumed because it blocks corrosion and the conductivity of the fluid begins to decline. However, this statement holds true for distilled water; the greater the presence of corrosion in the system, the higher the water conductivity.

Zitat

The quality of the coolant (CryoFuel) based on conductivity can be assessed, but not with the said sensor (too small range, I don’t know if it has a calibration certificate). The conductivity of EK-CryuFuel Clear Premix ranges between 2200 and 2500 µS. Conditionally the liquid is OK up to 1500 µS, if of course, the other properties are OK - color, sediment. If the liquid is clear / slightly yellowish, with a characteristic odor-free odor, the liquid is OK.

Zitat von »Hopper64«

I expected better results as well. My older aquacomputer flow sensors work well with no noise even with flow rates greater than 300l/hr. I was looking forward to having conductivity along with temp and flow rate as routine data for my loops, but this is disappointing. Hopefully it will be addressed quickly.

May I ask what the outcome of this was? I get that the High Flow Next apparently cannot be used to monitor conductivity of EK CryoFuel because it's conductivity is ~11X higher than what Aquacomputer considers the upper limit. OK so don't use EK coolant and expect a High Flow Next to be able to provide a meaningful measurement of its "quality". So that (sort of) explains the strange conductivity data reported. But what about the high pitched click and the ~5% deviation in flow rate values? I did find a thread HERE about a manufacturing defect in some High Flow Next /2 /LT sensors that resulted in noisy operation, so maybe yours had this problem? That leaves the ~5% variation in reported flow rate. According to the Aquacomputer marketing material, the High Flow Next is supposed to have "four times higher resolution compared to the other flow sensors of our high flow series". So does this mean their old flow sensors were 4X less accurate that what you observed, or maybe the manufacturing defect affected the flow rate accuracy of one or both of the sensors? I could not find a spec on the accuracy of the flow rate sensor, only that they are 4X more accurate than the old models. Is this ~5% deviation considered acceptable?

EK and AQ use differing methodoligies, EK adds an inhibitor to their fluid, wheres AQ minimizes additives in the fluid to reduce conductivity.
If the conductivity of Cryofuel is outside the design range of the Flow Next, it will be off scale.
The Flow NEXT is calibrated for DP Ultra and distilled water, with the conductivity value when new being designated as 100%. This 100% will only be true for identically brewed fluids, all others need calibration.

One cannot expect the greatest accuracy at the price point of the devices used in our hobby industry, but then accuracy is not as important as being able to detect change over time. This I believe to be true for both flow and conductivity.

Thank you for your cogent response. This thread has revealed that the initial conductivity and behavior over time of DP Ultra and EK Cryofuel are very different. It’s interesting that the first feature listed by EK for their coolant is Low Electrical Conductivity. So both companies agree that low conductivity is good, but disagree on what “Low” is, by a factor of ~X11. This leaves me to wonder about other coolants on the market and how much they vary in this regard. Something I will look into, just for my own knowledge. At least Aquacomputer provides a detailed data sheet.

Regarding the Flow Next accuracy, your points are well taken. I did not see a spec for flow rate accuracy. The description just says it’s 4X more accurate than the other AQ high flow sensors and has “high precision”. I guess 5% is not terrible, and you’re right - change in flow rate is important. I am new to custom loop cooling (coming from AIOs) so don’t really know what is considered “high precision” for a flow sensor in the performance PC hobby market. I have read that some models offered by other manufacturers are so inaccurate that they are really only eye candy. So maybe my initial expectations were not realistic.

I am just finishing up a new build and decided to step up to Aquacomputer this time around for fan, pump, and RGB control. I bought an Octo, Farbwerk 360, Hubby7, and 2 Splitty4’s. So far I am totally impressed with the hardware and the Aquasuite platform. I stuck a Fractal AIO in but am considering moving it to a lower tier rig and building a custom loop in the big boy. As I am sure you know, it’s a bit of a black hole and I find myself approaching the event horizon.

Thanks again for your insights.

Zitat von »InfoSeeker«

EK and AQ use differing methodoligies, EK adds an inhibitor to their fluid, wheres AQ minimizes additives in the fluid to reduce conductivity.
If the conductivity of Cryofuel is outside the design range of the Flow Next, it will be off scale.
The Flow NEXT is calibrated for DP Ultra and distilled water, with the conductivity value when new being designated as 100%. This 100% will only be true for identically brewed fluids, all others need calibration.

One cannot expect the greatest accuracy at the price point of the devices used in our hobby industry, but then accuracy is not as important as being able to detect change over time. This I believe to be true for both flow and conductivity.