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Flatness specifications

Monday, July 11th 2005, 5:54am

Can anyone tell me what specs Aqua Computer hold their water blocks to in flatness of the CPU side of the block?

Re: Flatness specifications

Monday, July 11th 2005, 1:39pm

Where is this heading - another AC flaming session?

It might be better to start enquiries via e-mail.

Re: Flatness specifications

Tuesday, July 12th 2005, 12:03am

Not at all, just tryng to discover whether my block is in spec or not. If it is out of spec then I will return it. If it is in spec I will just lap the bottom. Here in the USA most manufacturer's specify the flatness characteristics of their blocks. For example one manufactuer states "the base is lapped flat to 0.0005 of an inch." I did not see that information on the English site. Perhaps it is somewhere else that I can't read....so I am asking. :)

Re: Flatness specifications

Tuesday, July 12th 2005, 2:41am

But that's only 12.7 microns if I'm getting my decimal points in the right place, (1/80th of a mm).

Surely you can tell how flat a surface is by using a steel edge or something, and you're going to lap it anyway. ???

Are you planning on using AS5 or something to mount the block, coz I've been led to believe having a perfectly flat surface isn't so good for heat transfer through the paste.

Re: Flatness specifications

Tuesday, July 12th 2005, 3:24am

0.00127 mm is correct or about 50 millionths of an inch. I assume they check them on a granite surface plate as the ones typically used by machine shops are flat to that figure. I saw a post in the AC thread on the [H]ardForum where someone who had access to a Starret master level and he showed a pic of a concave Cuplex Pro. I had noticed the same on my first XT and I think it is the same on my silver XT that I just received a couple of weeks ago though I just used a gage block. So while I don't mind lapping the block I would like to know the specs so that I can decide whether to bother returning it. It took me about two hours of work to get rid of the concave surface on my first XT and if they are out of spec then I will return it and get another one. :)

Added:

Now I am not using really super accurate stuff here, but it seems that the block I have is pretty flat when you check it by aligning the gage block with the input and output threads if I am making myself clear. When I check in the opposite direction (from the mount to mount side) it appears to be concave?

Re: Flatness specifications

Tuesday, July 12th 2005, 1:31pm

Quoted from "Top_Nurse"

it appears to be concave?

Any chance of a measurement on that?

Re: Flatness specifications

Tuesday, July 12th 2005, 1:52pm

Sure I will post tomorrow after I find some feeler gages. Looks to me like a couple of thousands of an inch (.05 to .08 mm).

In the mean time if your interested here is a link to a pic that shows the other block I was speaking about.

Re: Flatness specifications

Tuesday, July 12th 2005, 10:44pm

Quoted from "Infiltraitor"

Are you planning on using AS5 or something to mount the block, coz I've been led to believe having a perfectly flat surface isn't so good for heat transfer through the paste.


Actually I believe the issue was (Artic Silver) that having a pretty surface was detrimental and not whether it is flat or not. You can have flat and a brushed finish. I prefer flat over finish as the Artic Silver paste will take care of any problems with finish. This was first noticeable when I dry mounted my silver XT and from the marks on the block it appeared to be only contacting the die surface in about four (4) points.

Re: Flatness specifications

Wednesday, July 13th 2005, 6:08am

Okay I just got done checking my Silver XT. If you lay a gage block on the side of the block parallel to the two mounting holes you can easily stick a .002" (.0508mm) feeler gage under the block. If you lay the gage block 90 degrees to the previous position then you can stick in a .001" (.0254mm) feeler gage.

Just lapped the block for a couple of minutes and the 1000 grit sandpaper doesn't even touch anything except the sides of the block.

I just checked my three TwinPlex's and they are pretty flat. I don't have any feeler gages less than .001", but I would say they have less than .0002" of deviation just by eyesight.

Re: Flatness specifications

Wednesday, July 13th 2005, 11:08pm

If you can judge measurements of 5 microns by eyesight, then I guess I must be replying to a machine.

Sorry, I thought you were a person.

Re: Flatness specifications

Thursday, July 14th 2005, 1:12am

I suppose you are just kidding right? .0002" is very easy to see if you use the right testing setup. After you have seen many parts through an optical comparator, coordinate measuring machine, and other high end testing equipment you realize that some things can be easily checked if you use the right test setup by the eye alone. For instance I checked my Silver XT with a gage block and saw a gap though a strong light. I then measured it with a feeler gauge and verified that it was about .002" concave. I check my TwinPlex's with the same setup and my bionic eye reports to me that it is about 1/10th the size of the other gap...

BTW, do you think I should return my Silver XT? As I said before I don't mind lapping it, but I am concerned with how much material I take off as the bolts appear to be about .010" under the block surface and I don't know the thickness of the block at its thinnest point. Am I going to be in the okay range if I knock off about .005-.010" of material?


Added 7-14-05:

Okay with my dial caliper I checked the thickness of the base plate around the edges and it is about .040" (1.01mm) minus the .002 concavity so say about .038". Now this is not totally accurate as say a depth gage, but close enough for government work. So am I going to be okay to drop the plate thickness down to say about .035" (.889mm) or should I return this silver XT? I don't want to get into any warping problems after assembly so I figured to lap the block completely assembled. BTW, can you guys give me the torque settings for the bolts? I assume I should use a standard cross tightening pattern, but how much torque at a time should I apply?

Re: Flatness specifications

Wednesday, August 24th 2005, 2:26am

out of interest, why does it matter at all? It seems to me like all you do is post near-pointless posts onto this forum which clutter it up.

Regards


PS: Stefan das siehst du doch auch so :)

Re: Flatness specifications

Wednesday, August 24th 2005, 11:15am

Quoted from "boswell"

out of interest, why does it matter at all? It seems to me like all you do is post near-pointless posts onto this forum which clutter it up.


If that is what you believe why did you bothering reading and posting in this thread? Obviously I have different interests than you do so why don't we just leave it like that and thanks for sharing. ::)

Ze@lot

Full Member

Re: Flatness specifications

Wednesday, August 24th 2005, 12:01pm

Quoted from "boswell"

out of interest, why does it matter at all? It seems to me like all you do is post near-pointless posts onto this forum which clutter it up.

Regards


PS: Stefan das siehst du doch auch so :)



i thought the whole point of this forum was that people could post questions. so that they could get some advise from AC & other people using this forum.

if i had a very expensive water block like the silver XT id also want to know if its ok to remove that much material.

all TN was asking for was a yes or no answer, but all i see is a lot of flaming

vils

Junior Member

Re: Flatness specifications

Wednesday, August 24th 2005, 6:18pm

Quoted from "Ze@lot"




i thought the whole point of this forum was that people could post questions. so that they could get some advise from AC & other people using this forum.

if i had a very expensive water block like the silver XT id also want to know if its ok to remove that much material.

all TN was asking for was a yes or no answer, but all i see is a lot of flaming



I concurr!

/Vils
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Re: Flatness specifications

Wednesday, August 24th 2005, 9:35pm

Quoted

I assume I should use a standard cross tightening pattern, but how much torque at a time should I apply?


Just keep tightening, till you see the plexiglas crack.


;D lol just thought i'd bring a little humour back into the thread, seems to have gotten a little negative.

Re: Flatness specifications

Thursday, August 25th 2005, 4:48am

Quoted from "Mr_modnaR"



Just keep tightening, till you see the plexiglas crack.


;D lol just thought i'd bring a little humour back into the thread, seems to have gotten a little negative.


Well I wasn't asking about those screws ;) I was asking about the screws that bolt the jet plate to the silver bottom block...so no plexi ;D

BTW, does anyone know what flatness specifications AC holds their blocks to? Still waiting for an answer. MM or inches is fine with me. I mean every manufacturer has machining tolerances and I really not interested in anything other than the flatness spec on the bottom of the blocks.

Re: Flatness specifications

Friday, August 26th 2005, 3:08am

hi @ all,



I am just wondering why do u want to know the "flatness specification" ?


because i do not see any difference between 0.0001mm and 0.0002 mm flatness.



bye @ all

Re: Flatness specifications

Friday, August 26th 2005, 12:05pm

Quoted from "boswell"

hi @ all,

I am just wondering why do u want to know the "flatness specification" ? because i do not see any difference between 0.0001mm and 0.0002 mm flatness.


I don't see any difference in .0001-.0002mm either, but I can see a whole bunch when it is several thousandth's of an inch out of being flat. See this pic for what I saw on my Silver Cuplex XT. This is not my pic, but mine was almost identical in look and concavity.