• 16.10.2021, 11:43
  • Register
  • Login
  • You are not logged in.

 

Dear visitor, welcome to Aqua Computer Forum. If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains how this page works. You must be registered before you can use all the page's features. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

Bradeck

Junior Member

Problem controlling PWM fans or pump with the aquaero 6 [Solved]

Wednesday, January 8th 2014, 1:38am

Hello there,

I mailed the aquacomputer support, but maybe some of you has an answer. I simply cannot control my PWM fans or pump through the aquaero

First, the setup:
- 1 brand new aquaero 6
- 8 PWM fans, plugged in a 8 way splitter (the swiftech)
- One DCP655 PWM pump (also from swiftech)

Pump problem :
The pump has a power cable, and a PWM signal cable, and cannot run if the power cable is not plugged.
If I plug the PWM signal it in the CPU fan controller header on the motherboard, everything runs fine.
If I plug it in the aquaero and set it to PWM control, it runs fine if I set the power to 100%. If I put the power to 99%, the pump stops....

The pump being silent, it is not really a bother, but it's kind of frustrating to have a fine controler and a fine pump, but not being able to control it 8|

Fan control problem
When the eight fans are connected to the splitter they always run at full power when the PWM cable of the splitter is
connected to the aquaero 6. This 8 way splitter has two input cable, one
to power the fans, via sata, and one "fan" connector, wich conveys only
the PWM signal. So if the sata connector is not plugged in, the fans
cannot run. And it's the case with all splitter that I know of (and no, I don't want to solder all my fans in a DIY daisy chain ^^ ).


Here are the test that I conducted :
Test a: I connect only 1 fan directly to the aquaero => I can control it just fine via PWM

Test
b : I connect the fan to the splitter, and the splitter to the aquaero
=> the fan always run at full speed (and when the 8 fans are
connected, they all run at full speed).


Test c : I connect the 8 fans to the splitter, and the
splitter to the CPU fan connector on the motherboard => I can control
the fan with PWM just fine


Test d : I did the same
test with another type of splitter, a four way cable splitter, wich also
have one cable for power and one for PWM, the problem is the same.

Test e : If a connect only one fan, or the splitter, to the chassis fan control header on the motherboard (which are 4 pins), they always run at full power.

After some research, it appears as on most motherboard, only the CPU fan header is really PWM controlled, the other, even when they are four pins, use voltage control... and so the aquaero behaves as if the fans where "power" controlled even
when they are set up as "PWM" controlled in the aquasuite.

But being a total newcomer to the fine piece of hardware that is the aquaero, and to the aquasuite, maybe
I'm doing something wrong, as the pump clearly demonstrate that the PWM signal is sent, as the pumps completely shuts off with a 1% decrement.

I'm completely lost. I know it can be saif that the aquaero works just fine and it's the swiftech splitters or the pumps that are faulty, but as all the product come from well respected companies (aquacomputer and swiftech), it's a shame that they don't work well together. And I cannot believe that my motherboard can do something that aquaero cannot.... so it must be me and some faulty setting of mine :whistling:

Have you some meaningful insights as what is occuring ?

[Edcit to put the topic as solved]

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Bradeck" (Jan 15th 2014, 7:19pm)

Larry L

Junior Member

Wednesday, January 8th 2014, 5:42am

Do not own a Aquaero product yet. Have been doing some research on PWM signals how a PWM fan works and the PWM on pumps work. Thru my research found this white paper from Swiftech. My purpose is to hook up 25 fans on the Aquaero Pro 6. Here is a link to the White paper by Swiftech. Hope this helps you and best of luck. Following this post I want to see what others have to say.

http://www.swiftech.com/pwmcontrollers.aspx

Wednesday, January 8th 2014, 7:26am

The PWM signal is working. All PWM Fans are working without any problems.

When you select the Option "PWM" fo an Fan output on a aquaero 6. The voltage on the output ist constant to 12V.
The control signal (pin 4) is used for speed control.

The 12V line is not modulated by PWM in PWM mode, only the speed control signal (pin 4).

Bradeck

Junior Member

Wednesday, January 8th 2014, 12:17pm

@larry : Thanks for the link

@sebastian : thanks for your quick answer and the clarification. I've seen in the aquasuite that the ouput is set on 12v. What is misleading is that on the controller the value is labelled as "power"

So is there an explanation as to why the Pwm control works with the motherboard but not with the aquaero ? ( I use the exact same controller in the aquasuite with the 8 fans on the splitter than when I plug only one fan... )
Or can you explain to me how to correctly connect 8 fan to the aquaero on a single channel not involvîng any soldering or self building a signal splitter board ? ;)

(Edited some typos)

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Bradeck" (Jan 8th 2014, 12:24pm)

Bradeck

Junior Member

Wednesday, January 8th 2014, 7:10pm

I did some new testing today with another type of splitter : A two way splitter that draws power from the fan header, and connected to it only two fans. And : I can control them via PWM on the aquaero.

So I may be wrong, but all my empiric tests suggest that even when the aquaero is set to PWM control, it still require to send the actual electrical power to the fan or the header does not propagate the PWM signal.
If it's true, it seems to me to be a major flaw as ALL the splitter that I know of that connect to more than 2 or mayby 3 fans require two input for the split to work: one with only power cable (12V and GND) to a molex or sata connector, one with 4 fan connector having only the PWM cable signal... (Sensor and control)

This theory would also explain why the control of the pump fails, as it also doesn't draw power from the aquaero...

Could someone confirm / infirm this theory ? Or explain to me how to proove/invalid it as it's still empirical...

Pilo

Senior Member

Wednesday, January 8th 2014, 8:20pm

I'm guessing, if you would connect all 4 wires (12V, GND, RPM and PWM) only to the Aquaero 6 PWM terminal, without the external 12V+GND from the PSU, it would work perfectly.
->Darin Epsilon - PERSPECTIVES<-
Mr. SuicideSheep @ soundcloud.com
Test Shot Starfish @ soundcloud.com
Professor Kliq @ soundcloud.com

Bradeck

Junior Member

Wednesday, January 8th 2014, 10:54pm

I'm guessing, if you would connect all 4 wires (12V, GND, RPM and PWM) only to the Aquaero 6 PWM terminal, without the external 12V+GND from the PSU, it would work perfectly.

I think it would, but it's impossible without "tinkering" with the splitter (this one). On the page you can see the schematic of the splitter. You plug the fans in, and you must connect the sata power to the PSU and the fan connector to a 4 pin fan header (the aquaero). As seen on the schematic, only two cables are attached to the fan cable: The PWM sensor, and the PWM control), the other two cables (voltage and GND) goes to the Sata cable.

So if I don't connect the Sata connector and only the fan cable to the aquaero, the fans don't run as they don't recieve any current (I even tried it in desperation, hoping for some magic to work). And it's the same for all the splitter that I saw for more than 2 fans, and it's the same problem with the pump.

But as I agree that it should work, I'm on a quest for a crimping tool to do some test with an old splitter that i can destroy with my meager electronical skill. I'll pull out the voltage and gnd cable from the sata connector and put them in the fan connector... I'll keep you posted.

It's frustrating because the aquaero 6 is capable of feeding current to all those fans (in fact I have 16 of them), but all this raw power is useless as the standard splitters won't allow it. And it's also frustrating if the aquaero require to feed the current to fans/pumps that only need the PWM signal to be controlled... With the price of all those things (pumps / splitter / controller), it really should work right out of the box...

DarkRanger

Junior Member

Thursday, January 9th 2014, 1:58am


It's frustrating because the aquaero 6 is capable of feeding current to all those fans (in fact I have 16 of them), but all this raw power is useless as the standard splitters won't allow it. And it's also frustrating if the aquaero require to feed the current to fans/pumps that only need the PWM signal to be controlled... With the price of all those things (pumps / splitter / controller), it really should work right out of the box...
I can understand the frustration, but the problem here comes from the fact that the products are coming from different brands, I can assure you that you would not have any problem using an AC D5 pump. Also, the Aquaero is design to power and control the fans, so it sound just logic if the device stop sending signal to a channel that is not drawing power, its just power saving (but I don't know if this is what is really happening).

Anyway, I'm pretty confident that plugging the power and ground wires to the 4 pin PWM connector of your splitter should do the job just fine, if not, then the problem is coming from Swiftech, maybe they used some tricky PWM technology...

Good luck!

Thursday, January 9th 2014, 7:02am

You can try to connect the Splitter and the aquaero to the same Power Supply Cable. It is possible that you have a problem with different ground levels.

Connect the splitter and the aquaero with the same power supply cable, do not connect any other loads to this cable.

Pilo

Senior Member

Thursday, January 9th 2014, 7:11am

Perhaps the Aquaero 6 PWM signal needs the ground (GND) from the Aquaero fan header as well, because the fan header could be electrically isolated from the ground (GND) of the PSU? It's just a guessing once again, though. You could try to link both gounds (GND) from the Aquaero 6 fan header and the PSU together. I would try it, because it's easy to perform and would eliminate a possible error source as well.

LOL....I definitively need to much time to post my comments in english. Sebastian was faster then I but it's basically the same idea. Sebastians suggestion is much more obvious, though.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Pilo" (Jan 9th 2014, 7:22am)

->Darin Epsilon - PERSPECTIVES<-
Mr. SuicideSheep @ soundcloud.com
Test Shot Starfish @ soundcloud.com
Professor Kliq @ soundcloud.com

Bradeck

Junior Member

Thursday, January 9th 2014, 1:32pm

@DarkRanger: I understand all that, but working in a field where inter-operability is paramount, I'm always frustrated by things that should work well together but aren'tt. My point is not to rant against the products nor their manufacturer, as they are are good product and I respect both companies.

@Sebastian and Pilo: I'll try that as soon as I get home and tell you the results.

wa3pnt

Full Member

Thursday, January 9th 2014, 6:13pm

Before strapping (connecting) the Aquaero 6 XT fan header ground to the ground that the power supply is feeding to the fan (through a splitter or adapter) I'd check to see if there is any significant potential (voltage) difference between the two.

As previously mentioned, we do not know if the Aquaero 6 XT fan header ground is a direct connection with the system (power supply) ground.

RodeoGeorge

Bradeck

Junior Member

Thursday, January 9th 2014, 11:04pm

@Sebastian and Pilo: I'm sorry to report that it didn't work :(
It seems that my only hope is to put all the four calbe in the fan header. It was my intention from the start, to let the aquaero feed power and PWM signal to my hub of fans, but the splitters won't allow it (for now....)

@wa3pnt : I"m a total incompetent regarding electricity. I can get my hands on a "voltmetre" (don't know the term in english) this week-end, but how should I use it to mesure what you're asking ? (Yes electricity is akin to magic to me ;) )

wa3pnt

Full Member

Thursday, January 9th 2014, 11:39pm


@wa3pnt : I"m a total incompetent regarding electricity. I can get my hands on a "voltmetre" (don't know the term in english) this week-end, but how should I use it to mesure what you're asking ? (Yes electricity is akin to magic to me ;) )
Just use the Voltmeter to measure the voltage between the Ground pin on the Aquaero Fan Header, and the Ground (normally the blask wire) on the Power Supply Molex Plug.

I would look for a voltage of 10 millivolts (.01 volts) or less. If that voltage is higher than .1 volts, I would not strap the two together.

RodeoGeorge

Lynx91

Junior Member

Friday, January 10th 2014, 12:39am

Mabye it works if you put the power supply sata wires to the PWM-Plug and connect it to the aquaero 6?
I think you can connect a lot of 2way pwm adapters together, put them in the aq 6 and it works.

I just bought my new watercooling system with a MoRa3 and 4 PWM Phobya Fans and want to connect them with 3 2way adapters on one fan header.
I hope it will work
:D

Friday, January 10th 2014, 9:04am

Mabye it works if you put the power supply sata wires to the PWM-Plug and connect it to the aquaero 6?
NO!
Dont connect it in this way.

Seanimus

Junior Member

Saturday, January 11th 2014, 5:59am

I have 2 PWM splitters daisy chained, connected to one PWM output from AQ6. and they all run fine.
Currently at 600 RPM, because its so cold in NJ..
Here's me soldering 2 xSwitftech 8xPWM together..
Post #321
http://www.overclock.net/t/1421280/build…0#post_21283683

Here's the post on it connected to Fan 4; with only RPM and PWM wire connected (Pin 3 and 4).
Post #326
http://www.overclock.net/t/1421280/build…0#post_21295768

Here's the post on fan RPM around 700
Post #409
http://www.overclock.net/t/1421280/build…0#post_21544851

I think and this is a long shot; your problem might be in Aquasuite..
Put your PWM control switch (eg: Fan 4 switch output) in default controller, let it run at full power
Setup new Curve Controller based on temperature.
Read the temperature as an output to the dashboard, like in post #409, so you see the temperature that the Curve controller is based on.
Sometimes when I switch to my son's user account, it will go full speed...and thats because WMI may not work between Aquasuite and AIDA64 for me. Which is a software issue on Windows 7 with non-administrative user.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Seanimus" (Jan 11th 2014, 6:47am)

Bradeck

Junior Member

Saturday, January 11th 2014, 12:38pm

Just use the Voltmeter to measure the voltage between the Ground pin on the Aquaero Fan Header, and the Ground (normally the blask wire) on the Power Supply Molex Plug.
I would look for a voltage of 10 millivolts (.01 volts) or less. If that voltage is higher than .1 volts, I would not strap the two together.
RodeoGeorge

Bugger, all the cable are black... But I did find some schematics to find where they are located.
But from the post of Sebastian and Pilo, I dind't understand that the goal was to connect the ground of the fan header to the ground of the PSU...

NO!
Dont connect it in this way.

Ok, I didn't :D

I have 2 PWM splitters daisy chained, connected to one PWM output from AQ6. and they all run fine.
Currently at 600 RPM, because its so cold in NJ..

Here's the post on it connected to Fan 4; with only RPM and PWM wire connected (Pin 3 and 4).
Post #326
http://www.overclock.net/t/1421280/build…0#post_21295768

Here's the post on fan RPM around 700
Post #409
http://www.overclock.net/t/1421280/build…0#post_21544851

I think and this is a long shot; your problem might be in Aquasuite..
Put your PWM control switch (eg: Fan 4 switch output) in default controller, let it run at full power
Setup new Curve Controller based on temperature.
Read the temperature as an output to the dashboard, like in post #409, so you see the temperature that the Curve controller is based on.
Sometimes when I switch to my son's user account, it will go full speed...and thats because WMI may not work between Aquasuite and AIDA64 for me. Which is a software issue on Windows 7 with non-administrative user.


First: Very nice build log, and awesome build !! You'll have an amazing computer soon (when you have new, not broken acrylic tubing...)
Second: So it does work with this particular splitter, and the PWM signal only going to the fan header on the aquaero. It's good news, and now I only have to find what's wrong in my build.
As for the aquasuite, it works when only one fan is connected, and when I use the same controller with the spliter, then it stops working and the fans go full speed...
I run aquasuite with admin privilege, and the temperature I use for the controller is Delta T between water temp exiting from my top rad and the air temp, so I don't use WMI between aida64 and Aquasuite except for displaying the CPU/GPU core temps.

As the problem occurs with every single splitter I have that split power signal from PWM signal, I don't think the problem comes from the splitter, there must be something else...

Anyway, I'll try and build one splitter that doesn't separate both signal. It may take some time though as I don't have any tools here, and don't know of any electronical shop near me.

I'll keep you posted.

Bradeck

Junior Member

Saturday, January 11th 2014, 7:12pm

Some very weird news ?(

Having found some crimping tool, I went ahaed and did some tests.
1/ Using an old 4 way splitter, I made a little rewiring and put all the cable into the fan connector, and plugged it in the aquaero= Success, I can PWM control them ! :thumbup:

2/ So I did the same rewiring on the 8 way splitter and... = The 8 fans run at full speed. :thumbdown:

3/ As I could not believe my eyes, I redid test 1, wich did work, so I redid test 2 with only the four fans from test 1 connected to the 8 way splitter = Success ! :thumbup:

4/ So I spend a very long time swapping fan plug to headers on the 8 way splitter, and plugging from 4 to 8 fans. And here's the result: If i plug more than 6 fans into the splitter, the PWM control don't work anymore, and the fans run at full speed. If I put them on power control, I can control all 8 fans without problems. But as they are PWM fans, I read that's it's not good to control them via voltage regulation, so...

As Seanimus successfully daisy chained two of the same 8 way splitter and control all the fans with the Aquaero 6, and as my results is the same wichever pin I use on the splitter, the only differences that I see it that I have the "Sata" splitter and not the "Molex" one, and the fans we use. I use Corsair Air Series SP120 PWM Quiet Edition High Static Pressure Fan.the fans making. Or the splitter has some problem when all connectors are used (again, as it is used succesfully by other people, I may have gotten my two splitter out of a rotten batch...)


I'm utterly confused by the results.

Seanimus

Junior Member

Saturday, January 11th 2014, 10:05pm

The Sata and Molex doesn't matter. I just cut the wire and do my own cables.

Your board must be shorted on the inside OR some of the fan headers. You can test this with multimeter connection setting.