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High Flow Next - Can I use it with just USB 2.0 header or aquabus is mandatory?

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sebastianer

Junior Member

High Flow Next - Can I use it with just USB 2.0 header or aquabus is mandatory?

Wednesday, June 8th 2022, 7:18pm

Hi

I would like to purchase a Temp Sensor and a Flow Sensor for my Custom Loop. I'm considering getting the "High flow next" because I read it's very accurate.


That being said. Can I use the "High Flow Next" without “aquabus” and just with the USB 2.0 9-pin connector?

I have one USB 2.0 header in my motherboard available. (And my motherboard does not have a "temp sensor").

If I do this, can I still monitor the temp and the flow properly? And can I upgrade the firmware and stuff like that? Or for that I'm going to need the "aquabus" connector?


Additional question. (Not sure if this can be answered, but going to try): I'm running a D5 at 2000 RPM (fixed speed) and the fans at 600 RPM (max speed 850 RPM). I understand the sensor can generate some noise, but considering my settings, the sensor should run quiet for me correct? Maybe I put the D5 at 3000 RPM in the future, but ideally will keep it low.
Some user told me that the sensor for him was quiet up to 80% D5 speed. Below 80% he told me that it is quiet.

Thank you
Sebastian

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "sebastianer" (Jun 8th 2022, 7:23pm)

Speedy-VI

Senior Member

Wednesday, June 8th 2022, 9:35pm

USB - Yes you can connect the High Flow next via USB2.0. This is the newer and preferred method. Aquabus is an older, slower serial connection that is primarily used with Aquaero controllers. It is slow and has limited bandwidth. If you want your High Flow next to show up in Aquasuite (which you definitely want), you have to connect it's USB cable to a mobo USB header. I am pretty sure that firmware updates have to be done over USB. If you don't have enough USB2.0 headers on the mobo, get a HUBBY7 internal USB2.0 hub. .

Sensor noise - I assume you are referring to the High Flow next flow sensor. I don't have a High Flow Next or a D5 pump (yet) so I can't give you a definite answer. I know that the older flow sensors tended to make a ticking sound but I don't know if the High Flow also does this. Flow rate, within reasonable limits, does not really affect temps very much. I would get everything hooked up and try some different pump speeds. If you can run the pump at a lower speed and your temps are still OK, then use that speed. Some people like to control pump speed dynamically based on temp data. This is not going to improve your temps very much if at all so I don't see the point in doing it. I suspect constantly varying pump speed is probably harder on the pump too. I would try running at max for a bit then check your coolant temps. Then reduce the speed by 10% and check temps again. Keep doing that until temps start to increase. Increase the speed by 10% and call it done.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Speedy-VI" (Jun 8th 2022, 9:37pm)

sebastianer

Junior Member

Thursday, June 9th 2022, 9:15am

Thanks for all the tips @Speedy-VI
Then it should work fine for me. I have a free USB 2.0 header in the motherboard I can use it for the sensor.

Ytterbium

Full Member

Thursday, June 9th 2022, 6:48pm

I just connected all my devices (D5, HFN, LeakS) by USB, I don't even use Aquabus.

I have flow of about 240 L/h and if you are very close then you can hear a ticking, its very quite though, I don't remember exactly the speed but when it was slower it was totally silent.

I have my pump at constant 67% to get 240 L/h I just leave it there all the time, so I am also of the opinion that its not worth it to make a variable pump speed. However, my research was that above 227 L/h doesn't really have any significant benefits, the temperature difference across my rad is 1 °C, and the chilled water is 8 °C over ambient. I think that running the pump at 100 % can shorten the life, although D5's seem to be very reliable in general, so 67% was just a round 2/3rd

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Ytterbium" (Jun 9th 2022, 9:10pm)

Remayz

Senior Member

Thursday, June 9th 2022, 8:15pm

oh way below that flow is still overkill :)
GPU temp increases drastically below 80 ish L/h for me, but that varies depending on what GPU block you have. very bad ones like Corsair may need more flow to perform decently.
For me above 100L/h up to the max flow of the pump (~210L/h) i may gain a degree, or two with some luck.
So yea, no ticking at those speeds (across the board for me anyway on HF2, no noise).
Orientation will play too (always horizontal), and if you have bends close to the flowmeter it may disturb it.

Bottomline : it varies from build to build. if it ticks, contact support :p

sebastianer

Junior Member

Thursday, June 9th 2022, 8:34pm

Haha thanks all, hopefully everything is fine. I'll also order the PWM cable, I think I can connect this device to my FAN header to control the fans (currently I control them via CPU_FAN header). But not sure yet.



The reason I asked about the noise is the same reason I ended up setting my fans max speed at 850 RPM. Basically at 1 AM in the morning, If I'm playing a game and the house is quiet I can hear my 8 fans running at 1000 RPM. So at 850 RPM they are very quiet. (This is from 1 meter from the case, Meshify 2).
Maybe in the future I can aim for 800 RPM.


My D5 is fixed speed. I have it at 2000RPM (between 1/5 and 2/5 manual speed). If 4800 RPM is 100% speed, then I guess I'm running mine at 41% speed.

But I guess what actually matters for the tickling noise, is the flow right? I have 1 corsair XR5 radiator (that is very restrictive) and lot of 90º fittings so maybe my flow is low and I won't have any issues.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "sebastianer" (Jun 9th 2022, 8:56pm)

Ytterbium

Full Member

Thursday, June 9th 2022, 9:09pm

I would say at 2000 rpm then it would drop to that inaudible level, with my fans at 850 rpm I can't hear it with the pump 3969 rpm/67%.

I ran the pump with the flow meter by themselves then you could really hear that its mainly the rate, I can imagine if you had 90's on each side then it could be different, also from Igor's Lab this effected the accuracy also.

Remayz

Senior Member

Thursday, June 9th 2022, 10:39pm

D5 have some noisy speed ranges. when i was using them there were spots where they resonated with the case. I remember 55%, 65%, 77%.. and above it's just noisy because of speed itself.
but if i stayed away from these dodgy spots, the pump was always quiet.
It's definitely flow that causes ticking, but on every occurence in the forum, it was requested from aquacomputer that people contact support because the ticking should not happen, certainly not at moderate or low flows.

You probably still have high flow despite the XR5 being somewhat restrictive. I have 3 equivalent rads in my loop (hardware labs, OEM for Corsair's) and the flow tops at 220L/h with 3 waterblocks.

If your main goal is silence, you can definitely add radiators to further reduce fan speed and still get decent temperatures.

sebastianer

Junior Member

Friday, June 10th 2022, 9:35am

Yeah I have one more radiator but it's Xflow and has less restriction. My current radiators are not big because they are from my previous ITX case (not my current Meshify 2). In total I have:

- x1 240mm rad: GTS 240 XFlow (bottom intake)
- x1 240mm rad: XR5 (top exhaust)
- x4 90º barrow rotary fittings
- x1 GPU Waterblock for an RX 6800.
- x1 drain port with a 3 way fitting.
- x1 ULTITUBE D5 100 reservoir (with a manual rpm D5 vario)


I think the D5 can run at min speed and still provide same temp performance. But I don't have tool to measure.

I'm planning to add:

- x1 High Flow Next
- x1 CPU waterblock (for now I have a 3700X capped at stock 88W limit so it's fine with a 120mm NH-U12S running at 850 max rpm)
- x1 280mm XR5 (front intake), for the current 2 front fans that are without radiator at the moment.


-----

I have a question about the High Flow Next "RPM / Signal" output/input --> can this be used to output some RPM FAN speed using the aquasuit or something? (Example: if HFN water temp is at 40ºC then output 850 RPM speed to a PWM fan, if it's at 35ºC then output at 650 RPM).

I think it can only be used to export the "flow" as a reading or some alarm.

I would like to know if it's possible to control a FAN's speed based on water temp, without needing an "octo" or a new fan hub. I currently have a Deepcool FH-10.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "sebastianer" (Jun 10th 2022, 9:38am)

Remayz

Senior Member

Friday, June 10th 2022, 11:13am

the PWM connector is only an output :
"The signal output can also be configured to generate a flow signal for another connected device or a fan speed signal for the motherboard (100 l/h resulting in 1000 rpm)."

You'll need a fan controller to... control the fans ^^'
If you already have a deepcool hub you can just connect it to the motherboard and use its software to do the fan curve, but you('ll need to add a temperature sensor to the loop.
Otherwise you'll need a Quadro, since you don't require lots of PWM channels. It's a lot more affordable than Octo.

But if you only want to use a basic fan curve based on water temperature, the motherboard is enough. You'll need a Quadro only if you want to use more advanced control, like to auto adjust the curve for your room temperature (fan control based on water temp minus ambient temp)

my 2 cents : if you go motherboard control, the High Flow 2 may be more handy since it has temp sensor output and PWM output for flow (no USB)
If you go HF Next, all USB, then it's probably better to go full Aquasuite control and get a Quadro. You'll have flow and temp readings from the HFN, all useable in AS for fan control.
Then you'll have more temperature inputs too if you want to use virtual sensors for better fan control as i said above, and even some useless but fiun stuff like power dissipation measurement etc etc (and quadro has one RGB channel on top.)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Remayz" (Jun 10th 2022, 11:22am)

Ytterbium

Full Member

Friday, June 10th 2022, 8:09pm

With regards to output as alarm options are:




as Remayz said its not clear how your fan hub would know from the HFN what to do. Since I have the D5 Next, I connected my 6 fans (9 W) to this since it can do up to 25 W, the D5 also has a temp sensor so I run the water fan curve off that.

I did plan to do something like you so I had bought 53067 since my motherboard has a 2 pin header then I could use this 2 pin input the the onboard fan controller.

sebastianer

Junior Member

Sunday, June 12th 2022, 3:39pm

Thanks for the explanation regarding the Signal output on the HFN.

I think I'll just use the HFN to check the flow and temps occasionally.using the built in OLED. (Setting up the right D5 speed based on flow and check the max water temps under full load). It's still better and more accurate than the Bykski B-TFC-CS-X-BK (the one I was looking for when I started looking for a temp/flow sensor).

In the future maybe I get a "quadro" and start controlling the temps based on HFN water temps (my motherboard lacks temp sensor input), but for now I'll keep it simple with the CPU_FAN curve as I've been doing in the past years. My RPM range is very short like 600 RPM to 850 RPM. Maybe I change it to 550-800 RPM once I add an extra rad. So it's not very complex.

sebastianer

Junior Member

Thursday, July 14th 2022, 12:20am

I still have not received the HFN (low stock atm, so its taking its time to be shipped). But I have a new doubt.

Is possible to export the temperature measured by the "High Flow Next" to one of the "Quadro" input temperature sensors? (So, export it outside Windows or Linux / without additional software/services running).


I was thinking of getting a Quadro, but I'm not sure if this is possible. I read the manuals and:
- The Quadro seems to have a temp sensor input and an onboard memory to control the temps anytime the device is powered.
- But the High Flow Next doesn't seem to have an "output" for the temperature sensor that it is inside, is this correct? Or maybe that aquabus interface can be connected to the Octo for this?


In summary: I have a Deepcool FH-10 connected to all my fans. The RPM signal is coming from the CPU_FAN (Bios). I'd like to replace the RPM signal from the CPU_FAN (bios) with the Quadro FAN 1. And would like the Quadro to control the RPM speed based on the only temp sensor I will have (High Flow Next) . Right now my fan speed is driven by the CPU temp / CPU_FAN header.

Edit: if this is not possible I think I could add this sensor (part 53067 looks like very easy to install), but would prefer to use the sensor in the HFN.

Thanks!

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "sebastianer" (Jul 14th 2022, 12:42am)

Ytterbium

Full Member

Thursday, July 14th 2022, 7:03am

I don't think the new devices are designed to talk to each other on a hardware level, the aquero can do it I believe via aquabus as you said.


What I did is connect all the fans to the D5N since this has a fan plug, the D5N also has temp sensor in the water so I use this as the signal to control the speed.

If you want the quadro to do it in hardware then you can connect a sensor to the quadro directly then this sensor would be the input to controller

From Aquasuite, then any sensor can be the input, but you have to have software running.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Ytterbium" (Jul 15th 2022, 7:43am)

sebastianer

Junior Member

Thursday, July 14th 2022, 9:32pm

Edit: I think I got confused. The HFN cannot control the fan speeds directly and based on the temps, correct? (Without using an OCTO or a QUADRO)

It can only output the "flow" right? (not RPM speed based on temp).

This is why I was considering getting a Quadro. And since the Quadro needs a temp sensor input; i was considering on getting "Art.Nr.: 53067" to do this.

This post has been edited 10 times, last edit by "sebastianer" (Jul 14th 2022, 11:24pm)

Ytterbium

Full Member

Friday, July 15th 2022, 7:42am

Sorry, I was confused as well ;( .

Yes, HFN doesn't have fan output so you'll need the Quadro for that. You could make a software sensor on the Quadro from the temp sensor in the HFN if you didn't want full hardware control, since aquasuite is needed for soft sensors.

I used the GPU temp from HWInfo to control the fans speed on Quadro

Speedy-VI

Senior Member

Friday, July 15th 2022, 10:20pm

I recall a discussion about the temp sensor in the D5 Next not being accurate because it is influenced by waste heat from the pump electronics. I think an actual temp sensor in the flow path that is not inside the D5 Next is probably going to be more accurate. I am not sure if the temp sensor in the High Flow Next also has accuracy limitations.

InfoSeeker

Senior Member

Saturday, July 16th 2022, 3:57am

Quoted from "Speedy-VI"

I recall a discussion about the temp sensor in the D5 Next not being accurate because it is influenced by waste heat from the pump electronics. I think an actual temp sensor in the flow path that is not inside the D5 Next is probably going to be more accurate. I am not sure if the temp sensor in the High Flow Next also has accuracy limitations.

It was discussed HERE.
The sensor in the high flow next appears to function acceptably with coolant flow, as the bias is overwhelmed by the coolant.
The issue is more in using the automatic external sensor calibrations

Speedy-VI

Senior Member

Saturday, July 16th 2022, 5:33pm

Quoted from "InfoSeeker"

Quoted from "Speedy-VI"

I recall a discussion about the temp sensor in the D5 Next not being accurate because it is influenced by waste heat from the pump electronics. I think an actual temp sensor in the flow path that is not inside the D5 Next is probably going to be more accurate. I am not sure if the temp sensor in the High Flow Next also has accuracy limitations.

It was discussed HERE.
The sensor in the high flow next appears to function acceptably with coolant flow, as the bias is overwhelmed by the coolant.
The issue is more in using the automatic external sensor calibrations
OK I was mixed up. It was the sensor in the HFN that is affected by waste heat from the electronics. I thought it was the D5 next so thank you for correcting me.

Jacob

Full Member

RE: High Flow Next - Can I use it with just USB 2.0 header or aquabus is mandatory?

Wednesday, July 20th 2022, 1:58pm

Quoted from "sebastianer"

Hi
Sebastian


I saw an answer once,
aquabus is an old channel reserved for linux-like operating systems, is it correct?
Most peripherals can be connected to a PC via USB 2.0 for firmware upgrades and communications.
HUBBY7 is a part with USB2.0 expansion function, which can connect seven USB2.0 peripherals.
in addition,
Some peripheral sensors must use aquabus to communicate. For example,
electronic temperature sensors such as Calitemp still rely on aquabus ports to connect to aquaero 5/6 XT or LT.
I installed four calitemp sensors, which are used in the water inlet of CPU and GPU. and water outlet.
Temperature data is very accurate. Other than that : USB2.0 is a must, but aquabus is not. :)

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Jacob" (Jul 20th 2022, 2:00pm)

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